Pierre Hervouet
Transcript (Translated)
Hello, let me introduce myself, my name is Pierre Hervouet, I come from Beirut, Lebanon, and I love coffee.
So, the topic I would like to discuss is recognition—it's a bit like the philosopher's stone or the bottleneck. We called it a bottleneck because I wanted something that would work like a kanban, otherwise to pass the call for papers. And if this will be the solution to your relational problems, affection feedback, it will save your financial situation. Well, it does everything, really.
Before starting, I would like to ask you a few questions.
First question, I would like you to think, a bit of introspection, about a team where you felt valued. I would like you to think about how communication worked, how things went under pressure, when there was stress, how you solved problems, how you received feedback. So, I’ll give you a little time for introspection for 5 seconds. I hope you’ve had some teams where you felt valued.
So, we can say we felt a bit like that.
Now, a team where you did not feel recognized. I would like you to ask yourselves the same questions. How did it go? Communication, the joy of coming to work, feedback.
Maybe something like that.
So first, I will start with... Oh, I forgot to tell you, I work in finance, so I like numbers, stats, and things like that. So, we will start with the benefits of having engaged employees.
So, it’s more productivity. So, we compare the top 25, companies with a lot of engaged people, from the first quartile to the last quartile. So, if we compare people who are high performers, productivity is higher. Profitability is higher, the numbers aren’t exact—20%, 20%, it’s better, anyway, we don’t care, 19 or 21, I rounded, but that’s the idea. So, having engaged people increases the profitability and productivity of companies. It’s also less turnover.
So, between 25 and 65%, 25 is for sectors with natural turnover, like call centers. 65% is... for sectors with less turnover, like banks, bank counters. And then, there is less absenteeism. So, I was talking about engaged people.
And recognition, as I will show you, is something that increases these elements. So, if we focus specifically on recognition, are there people here who are familiar with return on investment and things like that? OK, good. Financially, this means that the investment a company makes has a return three times higher with people who have a high level of recognition. I compare companies with a high level of recognition and companies with a low level of recognition. That is, financially, it makes money.
So, this is based on research, particularly a study called meta-analyses, conducted by Gallup. It’s an analysis that comes from interview research, as well as statistical research, etc. They arrived at these conclusions.
Now, we have the side where we’ve done studies, we know that giving recognition increases company performance. That is, it’s an investment that pays off. And now we will look at a little experiment I call the 'hum hum.'
Experiment, that’s the slides in English, but anyway, experiment.
And it comes from behavioral economics, meaning there are studies that have been done, people who have time to study things at the level of people’s behavior when it comes to thinking about money. So, it was a very, very clever, very exciting piece of work. We asked students—because students are cheap to pay in studies, which is good for these kinds of studies—and we thought about it.
Here, damn. No, that’s not it. There we go.
So, we gave them a sheet of paper with a list.
Mostly letters. And their job is to find
identical letters that follow each other. So, it’s a super exciting job. And you have to find 10. And once you’ve found 10, you get paid.
And you receive 55 cents.
Then, you’re asked, do you want to continue? Yes, I’ll continue, it’s great and all. And so, you receive 50 cents. If you continue, you get paid less. And the idea is to see at what point people stop working on a job as exciting as finding a sequence of two identical pairs of letters in a list of letters.
So, there are different conditions—in psychology, we create conditions. First condition, the hum-hum condition.
You give me the sheet, I look at you, I go 'hmm hmm,' and I put the sheet down. That’s all. 'Hmm hmm.' Well, 'hmm hmm' isn’t great, it’s 'hmm hmm.' The tone is more like 'hmm hmm,' that’s good.
Indifference, second condition—I’m busy, I’m on my computer, you give me the thing, I put it on my desk, I don’t look at you, I don’t go 'hmm hmm.' Nothing.
Third condition.
I don’t look at you, and I put it directly in the shredder. I don’t give a damn about your work. So, what’s interesting now is, what are the consequences of a behavior on the level of salary you’re willing to accept.
First thing, hum-hum, we go up to nine stupid exercises.
Indifferent, it’s the shredder, in the end, it’s 6.8, 6.3, it’s very close, so the first condition—throwing someone’s work in the trash—is the same as not recognizing their work, not recognizing their contribution.
So, more interesting, financially, how does it translate. People are willing to be paid 15 cents to do the job, while others demand 26 or 30 cents for the same work. So, I told you, in finance, actually, I was in management control. And as a management controller, I think, damn, hum-hum, it pays off, I pay the guys half as much.
Just a man, there’s nothing else, not great work. I look at the person, I do it, I put the work down, that’s it.
So, we have two things. First, there are meta-analyses that have proven it’s much more effective to have a level of recognition at the financial level in a company. We have studies done in behavioral economics that prove the same thing. And the question we can ask is, why isn’t this practiced more often?
Hum-hum doesn’t cost much and it pays off big.
Yet, it’s not practiced by 75% of managers. So, who has an idea of the excuses? There are a few, but there are others.
Yes, it’s a waste of time. I don’t have time, damn, I don’t have time for that.
And then, they’re not children, we’re not in school, I’m not here to give gold stars.
Another example? Yes, it’s a waste of time.
Yes, that could be it, yes. But I don’t have it on the list.
It’s not good enough.
The second thing is jealousy. If I say 'Thank you, Eric,' Loïc will be upset because I said 'Thank you to Eric.' He will be jealous. He said 'Thank you.' He didn’t say 'Thank you to me,' and why?
The one I prefer is actually, it's not in the company's procedure.
We were not asked to do that. It's not in my job description. I don't do it.
These are petty people, my essence.
It's a private joke.
It's a private joke. It's not in the job description.
So now, I'm going to ask you to do a little exercise.
You need to pair up.
If you're not in pairs, form groups of three, but try to pair up.
Ok.
Is that good? Some are in threes, some are alone.
6, 3. So, in this exercise, just one small thing. It's about thinking, doing a bit of introspection. I'm going to ask you... There's A, there's one called A, I don't know, there's one called B, okay?
A will ask, 'What would you like to be recognized for?' So I'm just asking you to think, just before, about what you've done in the past week or month, for which you would like your contribution to the company, family, or whatever, to be recognized. For example, I would like to be recognized for bringing Biarte Bocnes to Giltour-Béroute. There you go.
So first think about what you would like to be recognized for. And now, A will ask B—you decide who is A, who is B, you figure it out. What would you like to be recognized for? Pierre, do it.
I would really like to be recognized for bringing Bjarte Boknes to Beirut.
Pierre, that was wonderful. Thanks to you, we had Pierre Tabongas in Beirut. And you made a moment in time for everyone.
Stop, stop, it's true. Thank you.
It's a setup. No, but it wasn't after.
Okay, you understood the principle. So, I'm asking you to just do this exercise. Before starting the exercise, afterward I'll do the reverse. Oh, I forgot, there's one thing. You have to listen to the little voice. When you're going to say, 'I'm happy, I recognize you because you did that,' and also listen to the little voice when someone says, 'Ah, thank you, Pierre, for doing this.' So it's not just about speaking; I'd like you to listen a little to the little voice inside you, both when you give recognition and when you receive it. Okay? So I'll leave you to it, go ahead.
Is it over?
That's good.
I had taken a little interest in the subject. In fact, between the 'hmm hmm' and a real thank you, there's still a connection.
No, no, but that's the interesting part. The 'hmm hmm' is absolutely nothing. We agree. It's just about saying, look at someone—I'll come back to this later—I can ask the question at the end. So in fact, what's amazing is that by doing almost nothing, it has value. That's what I wanted to say.
What I had in the game, as an experience, is that it had value in the very short term.
Yes, but... No, but it's just to introduce.
You're right.
We won't go into all the details, but you're right. You can ask the question at the end.
Is that it?
You don't know that, no? You don't know that? You don't know that? Oh really? I don't know where I saw that, in a conference somewhere, where everyone raises their hand to say that, well, it's over. It's very school-like. I love it. It's just to say it's over.
Is everyone good?
Now, I'd like us to say what emotions you felt when you said it, when you received it, especially when you received it. What emotions did you feel?
Pride, I'm putting it in red because it doesn't seem to be working too well.
Embarrassment.
Is that how it's spelled?
What else? Relief. I don't know if it's positive or negative. In what sense?
Positive.
Okay, relief. Relief. Relief. I don’t know if it’s positive or negative. In what sense? Positive. Ok, relief.
What else?
In what sense? It was a... In the sense that it never happens. It was? In the sense that it never happens. Ah, yes, okay.
Overwhelmed in what sense? Emotionally overwhelmed. But on the side of... Purely emotional.
Ok, the ankles that have...
Ok, what else?
The feeling of existing.
Yes.
Well, I’m in a community with Gilles, so... Ok.
Energizing.
It’s over. Or it’s...
No, it’s because we were turning the page.
Turning the page. Openness.
It’s the guy who listens.
That’s still a bit part of manipulation.
I saw that you didn’t see it.
A flash of well-being. Yes, a physical flash.
Yes, a well-being flash.
Motivated, can I put motivation? Motivated. So it’s funny because it must be linked to the fact that we’re in an agile community. People are rather naturally positive. So indeed, people, rather these 90%,
That, if someone can pull it for me, it pisses me off, it’s crazy.
90% of self-esteem. That’s the positive side. What’s surprising is that it’s not the case here, but very often, people, at the same time, feel discomfort. Meaning that at the same time I’m super happy, I don’t feel at ease.
We didn’t say it much because we’re rather in an agile, positive mood.
So we have a kind of ambiguity. On one side, we have happy, proud, inspired, but also self-conscious, embarrassed, ashamed, suspicious.
Embarrassed?
We’ll see. Great transition. Thank you.
There are traps. Why? Because behind recognition, there are many traps.
The first trap, who has children?
Flattery. Dad, you’re the most extraordinary dad. I love you so much. Could you buy me the new game on the Wii U?
Well, companies don’t do it like that. We don’t do it like that. I’m going to say, Eric, you did... Hey, you have a great shirt. I love it, really great. By the way, hey, couldn’t you go to the so-and-so department to get me something? So there you go, flattery. Flattery, we’re often embarrassed because we see the recognition, and then we think, 'Damn, what’s behind it?' That’s one of the first things. The sandwich. Do you know the sandwich technique? Who learned it in management schools.
So, I’m looking for a volunteer.
Philippe, I think you did a superb, superb presentation. But if you keep interrupting me while I’m talking, it can’t go on. But I’m sure that with your team spirit, we’ll succeed. So there you go, the principle is very basic. A compliment, a reproach, a compliment, boom, it’s wrapped up. So, very funny, I read a blog somewhere, a guy says, 'It’s a great technique for managing people.' Then at the end of the blog, he says, 'Yes, but don’t do that with seniors, they’ll see it coming from a mile away.'
So I think it’s not even with seniors.
It’s that after a while, we’ve figured it out, and we feel very embarrassed, the sandwich. So, there are others. There’s one I like, self-promotion. There you go. Thomas, really, you did a great presentation. My coaching was very effective. And besides, I think all the time we spent working together and everything, it was profitable, it’s thanks to me, in the end. So, self-promotion comes down to saying something that, I give you a compliment to put myself forward. That’s why we’re not comfortable with recognition. It’s that there’s a problem, often there’s a bit of manipulation behind it, and so we’re not always at ease, we’re not always at ease to say it either, I didn’t talk about it, but to receive it.
So there’s the path of recognition, the path of wisdom.
There is a recipe.
First thing, recognition must be timely, at the right time and moment. You thank someone for something they did, not two months ago, it's today.
And not necessarily at the retrospective, if it's in a month or two.
No, it's part of the path of recognition, it has nothing to do with it. It must be timely. That is, when you thank someone, you don't thank them during the annual review.
You thank them when they've done something that deserves to be thanked. That's the first thing, timely, at the right time and moment.
It must be personal. It's not 'we'. It can be the team, but it's not 'we did'. It's great, we did a super good job last week, and we don't even say what we did.
It must be proportional.
Normally, you don't thank someone for the work they're supposed to do.
If someone's job is to do their work, and they did it normally, 'Yeah, great! You arrived on time!' Well, no, if it's the rule in the team, 'Yeah, great!' And hey, thank you very much for arriving just in time for the stand-up meeting. 'Wow!' No. OK?
It must be specific. So we must explain why we're thanking someone. For such a contribution, for such a thing. Thanks to you, we fixed this bug that allowed us to unblock the process on the architecture, on the server, etc. It's really something specific. It must be sincere. Well, that's not necessarily the easiest thing.
That's a bit of the drawback.
Okay, the last thing, it must be aligned.
We're not going to thank someone for having... Great, you pulled off a great bank robbery. I admire your technique. The gun, you took the cashier, you got the money right away, it's great. No, it must be aligned with your values, the values we want to convey. It goes without saying, but it's better to say it.
So, timely, personal, proportional, specific, sincere, and aligned.
It also works with system feedback.
Yes.
So, there are two small recommendations here. The first thing is that it's also interesting to recognize the process as well as the result. Because people like it when we acknowledge the effort they made to achieve the result, not just the result.
Yes, I forgot something. We're talking about non-financial recognition. Well, I mean, we're doing well... We're not talking about bonuses at all, which for me are a bit like drugs. A little bonus hit, a bonus, a bonus. And in the end, we're craving bonuses. And when we don't have it... Oh, my bonus!
And also, you have to know people, which requires a certain empathy.
That's the side that's a bit difficult. And that's why I find it interesting to put recognition a bit at the center of the transformation, because it forces people to change their mindset. You have to learn to know each other. I'm not going to say to Pierre, 'Yeah, that's great, you did that.' So, we can give small gifts. He sometimes recommends, 'Yeah, I invite you to see what you don't like at all.'
There you go, well. What do you really like? So, a baseball game. There you go, he doesn't care. A soccer match. There you go, I invited you to the Parc des Princes, it's totally ineffective, seeing PSG vs. Madrid, he doesn't want anything to do with it, he doesn't care. So, it requires being specific also in what we can give as a small reward, as a small bonus.
Okay, and Agile, in your opinion?
And where are we with recognition in Agile?
That's a question I'm asking you.
Are we good?
We put feedback forward in me.
Yes. Well, the culture is rather OK. We're rather in a culture of transparency, of trust. That's what's written on paper. That, trust.
So it's rather an OK culture. Well, I saw the first thing, celebration. So that, celebration, is something that is a way of recognizing. I think we talked about it in another... Celebrating people, celebrating a success in a team, is interesting. People are happy. We can even invite people, the stakeholders, to come share a pizza. Pizzas are very geeky. Not everyone necessarily likes pizza. Not necessarily women either. A cake, not too heavy. Well, you have to find something.
Then it's also the act of celebrating.
No, not necessarily. It shouldn't be... If the work is going well, if it's normal to deliver, we can maybe celebrate having succeeded in being on time for the last three months. If it becomes systematic, it also loses some value. Recognition should be a bit surprising. So, who knows about kudos?
Not that many, actually. So, a kudo card is a small card. Here you have the English version, there is a French version, where you write by hand.
Great job, it was because you did, I don't know.
What's nice with the Q2, so we put it. So, in some teams, they recommend doing Q2 boxes, where you have a box for the week, and everyone thanks their colleague for doing something, for helping them. You put things in the box, and at the end of the week, you open the Q2 box, and there's nothing. No.
No, it's not... But the idea is to have feedback. But feedback isn't just from the manager. Recognition is also about the work of others. It's the people who work with you. There's something nice for those who are very active on Twitter.
You go to kudobox.co and send a tweet with a handwritten image. Thank you so much, X, for doing... I received one recently; it made me happy. It's nice, just to let you know. I'll give you my Twitter later.
Okay, so that's something nice.
Review meetings can be an opportunity—I said they can be an opportunity—to give recognition. So, you have to educate people a bit, because in some review meetings—I don’t know if you’ve experienced this—it’s more like a shooting gallery in some cases when there isn’t really any agile maturity. You go from indifference to suddenly, 'But why didn’t you do that?' And that’s it, it’s a mess, what the hell are you doing? But it can be an opportunity.
The retrospective. So, just...
Don’t forget in the retrospective to think about positive things.
The retrospective isn’t just about problems.
There’s a rule. This is the science of positivity. You know, the science of positivity is very trendy. Normally, you need one dose of negative and three doses of positive.
We don’t always do that in retrospectives. That may not be the goal. So, there are other solutions. You can do recognition grooming.
It’s something I started. That is, during backlog grooming, we recognized people in real time. We recognized them continuously. So, at some point, you don’t need a medal ceremony. nothing but problems.
There is a rule. This is the science of positivity. You know it's very trendy, the science of positivity. Normally, you need one dose of negative and three doses of positive.
So we don't always do that in the retrospective. Maybe that's not the goal. So, there are other solutions. We can do recognition grooming.
It's something I started. That is, instead of doing backlog grooming, we recognized people in a timely manner. We recognized them continuously. So, we don't need, at some point, to hold a medal award ceremony.
So, the power of recognition is also the team's business.
So, I went really fast.
So don't forget that it's not only management that recognizes, it's also all the people who recognize each other.
Damn, that's not great. So, it's a... Oh yes.
So, it's a powerful lever for transformation. I'll give you some figures, because when we are... We have the figures.
Just to tell you, this comes from studies done by two American authors, and as much as I try to remember their names, I forget them, I have a flaw, I can't remember names well. Anyway, what's extraordinary is they wrote a book called *The Orange Principle*. Main carrot, not orange, main carrot. And so, instead of having the stick and the carrot, they say remove the stick, the carrot will give you very strong performance. And it's them who compiled, in fact, who popularized this idea.
So that's the first book they wrote, which bothered me a bit because it was very individual. “Yeah, it's great, make a list of your employees, what they like, count the number of times you've recognized them.” Well, it was becoming a bit...
They're not all idiots, after all. And at some point, they looked into the notion of team. So the next book is about what makes teams performant.
And they found four things that make a team performant.
And it's very interesting because it doesn't come from Agile. And what did they see? Oh shit.
Goal setting, the objective must be very clear and everyone must have a clear vision of the objective. Which, in terms of Agile practice, is normally what we should do.
Good communication.
Yes, extraordinary.
A level of trust. I'm like Jean-Claude Van Damme, I can't speak anymore. And then accountability, let's say empowerment, a certain responsibility for people. People are responsible for their work; they're not just executors.
And that's where they did the study. And what I'm showing you here are figures from companies that ultimately have high levels of goal setting, communication, trust, and accountability. And then they divided these companies between those with a very high level of recognition and those with a very low level of recognition. And what we see... is that almost systematically, we go from about 66% to over 90% as soon as we add recognition. So recognition, in teams that already have good levels, that are quite performant, with good levels of communication, trust, and accountability,
recognition becomes an accelerator.
That is, recognition will boost all these elements.
And allow for very high-performing teams. Then afterward, we can discuss stats. I'm not a super champion, but the causality seems... It's recognition that drives it, and it's not having trust, etc., that drives recognition. That is, the causality is in the right direction. There are correlations, but more precisely, the correlation is in the right direction.
So there you have it, you have some... So be careful,
I'm looking into this a bit. So, this was done by Americans. So, when you read the book, sometimes, I find it's a bit too much. I told you, list of employees, what they like, what I'm going to give them. And then they systematized it, and it becomes a catalog of things you can give people. Here, I'll give you a plane ticket. Here, I'll give you a theater ticket, etc., which are small gifts. Because the guys who are also management controllers, there are some. And they say, 'It's not expensive to give a movie ticket, and it pays more than a bonus.' So they often add a financial aspect. And I was reading a paper, a blog too, and there was someone who was a 'recognition chief officer' in a company.
There are indeed 'happiness chief officers.' OK, why not? It's still nice to have a company that asks itself, how do I do it? She had received a complaint from an employee who said, 'I don't give a damn about your gifts.' I'm not interested. Stop recognizing me for things that are normal because I'm doing my job. And then, do something personal. Say thank you. Don't send a little coupon to choose from the recognition catalog. So, individual interaction over processes and tools. So, it's very important not to lose sight of that. The mindset, that it be sincere, that's the hardest part, and that it be personal. It doesn't become a problem. process.
Well, after that, I have another experience to show you; I had planned a little buffer time. So these are the books, so it's Gostick and Elton. You also have resources on their website, carrot.com; I took some info from them, etc. If you want exact references, it's in the appendices of *The Carrot Principle*; there's appendix B, which lists the studies they conducted. Okay? And in 2008, they conducted studies on team performance, which was very interesting because in 2008, it was just at the time of the financial crisis. And there aren't many more recent things, I believe, than 2008.
So, there's a Gallup Q10; you can find it. I found it somewhere because it disappears; it's a bit of a... It's a Gallup study. It's a company, Gallup, that has been doing studies for a long time on this subject of engagement. Thanks, but it's not really thanks. I'll go back to the thanks. We'll talk about other things. I really like experiments. And there's an experiment I like called the Bionicle Experience. So the idea was always a bit the same principle: to find out what motivates people. And what's the idea? The idea is to pay people to build a Bionicle. So, I forgot my Bionicle in my suitcase, but anyway. So, this is a Bionicle; I have it here.
So, the idea is that you receive 3 dollars when you finish a Bionicle. Do you want to continue? Yes. 2.7 dollars.
Do you want to continue? Yes. 2.4, etc. Down to 0. Down to zero. If you want to continue, just for fun, sometimes it's nice to build Bionicles; I like it. So, condition 1, I see my work. One Bionicle, two Bionicles, three Bionicles, four Bionicles. Who likes building Legos?
Ah, still, me too, thanks. Four, etc. So, you see your work, you're happy.
Second condition, the 'if condition 16,' meaning we tell the guy, for budgetary reasons, well, we don't have enough Bionicles, we take back the first one and destroy it, we put it in a box. Do you want to continue?
So the guy never sees it. He finishes one, we give him another, we destroy it, and we ask, do you want to make a second Bionicle?
And so, what is the impact on someone's motivation when their work is destroyed for them to continue?
Second condition, there's another condition: the consultant. That is, we ask people what the impact is. In your opinion, what will be the difference between the number of Bionicles I make? 1, 2, 3 in front of me, when I have them in front of me, and the number of Bionicles I make when they are systematically destroyed.
So the consultant generally thinks there will be one or two fewer.
He will stop a little earlier, but it's one or two. The reality is rather 3.54.
That is, I stop quite quickly.
I stop working because my work has been destroyed.
And well, that gives meaning, it's related to meaning, but it's also related to recognition, because if my work is destroyed, it doesn't really have... I am not recognized.
Oh, damn, I forgot a slide.
What is also more important is the same phenomenon, meaning I will accept being paid almost half as much because it's somewhat linear if my work is recognized.
It gives meaning if I see my work. The most extraordinary thing is that the destructive impact, the impact of destroying something in front of someone, is very significant for people who are motivated. Building Bionicles. So, putting it in context, in a company, the guy who is very motivated, who is a great coder, and his work is not recognized and is thrown in the trash, the project is canceled, it's over, is much more destructive than a guy who ultimately doesn't care, he does coding, he gets his salary, and that's the end of the month. So for motivated people, demotivation is very significant when there is destruction of work. And so, I come back to this because the psychologist who conducted this realized he had a case like this. So, a company had decided to develop a new product by applying the rules. You are put in a special building, a task force, you will work for three years, and you will innovate. Okay?
And then after three years, they tell the guys, we're cutting the budget. It's over. Goodbye. You return to your departments. So the guy arrived just the week after and said that the motivation level had dropped very, very low. And he says that to compensate for this, it's quite simple. They should have just asked the guys, maybe you did some great things, come show the others so they can pick up some ideas. So there is recognition of their work, And it wouldn't have been as destructive as the American way, we close.
And I've known many people like that, where their work wasn't recognized, it's over, boom, go home. And generally, motivated people resign. But those who stay are the ones who are less motivated.
So I'm going back.
Current slide.
This is a very quick review.
So, I wanted to thank someone named Christopher Littlefield, who helped me a lot with this presentation. He is someone whose job is to provide acknowledgment.
And this is one of the advantages—I'm telling a little story here—it's one of the advantages of being in Lebanon; the Agile community isn't large, so we are very on the lookout for new things that share a similar mindset. He was an American who stayed in Lebanon for three years; I met him the day before he left, and we had an enthusiastic discussion about Agile values and what he promoted. And we put this presentation together. He is in Chile, and I am in Beirut. So there's a bit of a time difference; sometimes it's a bit messy. So, he's a great guy. He has a TEDx talk; you can search for TEDx Beirut, TEDx Beirut, and you'll see Christopher Littlefield; he has a great presentation on this.
There, that's me. There. Oh, excuse me. It's possible.
Is it good?
No, it was the Astérix slide.
Ah, is it the other one?
It's not the inter-sheet. It's to give recognition.
Okay. So, there, I am also... I love Agile, so I am a promoter of the Agile method in Lebanon. I organize a conference called Agile Tour.
There, and in the Middle East too.
Yes, there. We don't do calls for papers, but well, we will have a call for papers soon for Beirut.
Thank you. Questions are welcome. I don't know if I have time.
Thank you, Pierre.
Yes, you're welcome.